Existence exists

There is a concept out there of "The Universe". It is "that which is everything that exists". Since any "cause" of this concept is itself an existent, it to then is a part of the concept "The Universe".

Now since "something" cannot have come from "nothing", we know that there will have to be one existent that exists eternally without itself being caused. We know this because "something" (us, at least) is here.

Some people like to say, "The Universe" cannot be it's own cause, it cannot be eternal, so there must be a concept called "God" - and he gets to be the uncaused eternal.

One, why bother? If you must ascribe the attribute of eternity to anything, why not what you see and know of, rather then something unseen and speculated?

Two, and this is my main point, if a thing called "God" is introduced as a cause of "that which is everything that exists", well, that thing called "God" is itself an existent and a part of "that which is everthing that exists" - the very thing we were seeking the cause of!

The biggest fallacy in the whole debate over God/Non-God is NOT that there is no proof of his existence - that's just the second biggest fallacy.

The biggest fallacy is to assume that "that which is everything that exists" had a "cause", or a creation, when logically, it could not have. The question, "What created the Universe?" has as little meaning as "What flavor is blue?". You can ask the question, you can make those word-sounds, but they have no meaning. Blue has no flavor, and the entirety of existence has no cause.

(Before responding, please keep in mind the distinction between the "Known Universe" generally believed to have started with the Big Bang, versus what I am talking about, "The Universe as a Whole" or the "Entirety of Existence" which includes the "Known Universe", the Big Bang, and anything that caused the Big Bang.)

Dean West